First up, I am still working on the Maps for the Vampire Bestiary: Mountain of the Cannibal God (so bare with me on those). I have also got some work done on Vampire Bestiary: Temple of Death. Artist Peter Szmer has submitted 3 more illustrations for that book and its shaping up nicely.
As for website updates I just added a new Darksiders 2 Boss: The Bone Giant to that article. I’m still tweaking the Aeshma-Deva final form of Asmodeus, so give me a few days on that and I’ll see what I can do.
Pathfinder’s Mythic Adventures
But I wanted to talk about news that broke at Gencon a week or so ago. Basically Paizo are doing a book called Mythic Adventures which is ‘sort of’ Pathfinder’s answer to the Epic Tier. Basically it adds an effective 10 new levels (even though you don’t add class levels now).
In a nutshell, characters (or monsters) can gain ‘Mythic Tiers’ (up to 10 Tiers) for one of six different archetypes:
- Archmage (Intelligence…?)
- Champion (Strength…?)
- Hierophant (Wisdom…?)
- Marshal (Charisma…?)
- Trickster (Dexterity…?)
- Warden (Constitution…?)
So Mythic Tiers act a bit like Templates and can be applied to PCs, NPCs and Monsters of any Level or Challenge Rating.
One interesting facet is that at the top end of the Mythic Tier scaling characters are said to be equal to Demigods and Demon Lords. That got me thinking that it may be possible to convert over my monsters using Divine Rank to parallel Mythic Tiers on a 1:1 basis as follows:
- 1 Mythic Tier = 1 Divine Rank = Disciple
- 2 Mythic Tiers = 2 Divine Ranks = Prophet
- 3 Mythic Tiers = 3 Divine Ranks = Hero-deity
- 4-5 Mythic Tiers = 4-5 Divine Ranks = Quasi-deity
- 6-7 Mythic Tiers = 6-7 Divine Ranks = Demi-deity
- 8-11 Mythic Tiers = 8-11 Divine Ranks = Lesser Deity
- 12-15 Mythic Tiers = 12-15 Divine Ranks = Intermediate Deity
- 16-23 Mythic Tiers = 16-23 Divine Ranks = Greater Deity
- 24-31 Mythic Tiers = 24-31 Divine Ranks = Elder One
- 32-47 Mythic Tiers = 32-47 Divine Ranks = Old One
- 48-63 Mythic Tiers = 48-63 Divine Ranks = First One
- etc.
At a certain point the whole thing may become unfeasible but the idea looks practical up to Elder One at least (admittedly that’s before I have seen the rules themselves so its still a big leap).
Reverse engineering 3.5E Challenge Ratings so they convert to Divine Ranks and then converting again over to Mythic Tiers we get the following:
- 3.5E CR 26 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 24 (quasi)
- 3.5E CR 40 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 26 (demi)
- 3.5E CR 53 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 28 (lesser)
- 3.5E CR 80 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 32 (inter)
- 3.5E CR 106 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 36 (greater)
- 3.5E CR 160 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 44 (elder)
- 3.5E CR 212 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 52 (old)
- 3.5E CR 320 converts to Pathfinder (Mythic Tier) CR 68 (first)
Obviously the in between CRs could be broken down further so that (for example) 3.5E CR 48 = Pathfinder CR 27
Which means in my(3.5E) Immortals Handbook: Epic Bestiary Volume One various monsters would convert to:
- Amilictli = Pathfinder CR 26 (borderline 27)
- Anakim = Pathfinder CR 25
- Akalich Template = 12 Mythic Tiers
- Alabaster = Pathfinder CR 44
- Amidah Template = 16 Mythic Tiers
- Cherubim = Pathfinder CR 38
- Elohim = Pathfinder CR 26
- Great Wyrm Nexus Dragon = Pathfinder CR 116
- Neutronium Golem (at Revised CR 750) = Pathfinder CR 120…ish
Anyway, this Mythic Adventures book may be enough to convince me to do some epic material for Pathfinder. I’m curious what others make of the idea of Mythic Adventures itself and the prospect of me converting material and/or creating new material for it?
Eternity Publishing 
Kinak
November 21, 2012
I would be totally stoked to see some Mythic material from you. You do great set-pieces and if there’s one thing I feel Pathfinder needs, it’s more awesome set-pieces.
Upper_Krust
November 22, 2012
Thanks for the kind words Kinak,
I’ve read over the (recently released) playtest document some more and I have to be honest, (at this juncture) I sort of don’t get what they are trying to do with these Mythic Rules.
I think part of my problem with the fundamental idea is how much they are pushing the overlap between ‘mundane’ levels and mythic levels. People wanted epic levels for Pathfinder and they seem to be getting a few scaling Templates that every random goblin, troll and minotaur can possess.
Now I know the final book will have new monsters as well as mythic versions of existing monsters (as seen in the playtest document). But I am just wondering what they are going to have within the space of 10 levels that will be so inspiring to want to bother? Plus they are concentrating (at this point) so much on integration with Levels 1-20 (which is of course where the big market share lies, so its understandable) that you know a large proportion of any eventual Bestiary will have loads of mythic boosted existing monsters.
Dave
November 23, 2012
I read through it as well and had similar thoughts. I like the idea of the mythic abilities, but I don’t really want to layer that on top of existing levels. I don’t play PF or 3e, so might take some of the ideas for my next epic level campaign.
Kinak
November 23, 2012
I think the idea is to provide another ten levels, but let people decide where to put them, either at the end (traditional epic) or through the middle (for children of the gods or low-player Adventure Paths) or different configurations (like E6+).
In Pathfinder, more than the old 3.5 APs, the biggest threats have been set well into the 25-35 CR range. At the end of the day, though, it’s possible Mythic’s real strength will be in getting to the 20 CR range easier, to tell the big stories with (hopefully) less absurd spells and bookkeeping.
But we shall see 🙂
In any case, I’d still love to see any encounter thoughts that shakes loose.
Upper_Krust
November 23, 2012
Hey Dave,
I have been reading comments on the Paizo forums, in the Mythic Playtest pages.
One thread was called:
“So are we ever going to get standard Epic Rules?”
In defending the Mythic rules, one of the posters indirectly seemed to hit on my biggest failing of the Mythic Rules. They responded:
“If you are looking to fight high powered fights against demon lords and demigods, Mythic allows you to do that.”
At first that may seem like a valid point, however, YOU CAN ALREADY FIGHT DEMON LORDS AND DEMIGODS WITH SUB-EPIC RULES…In fact Paizo already let you fight Demogorgon and Kyuss (among other BBEG’s) in their Adventure Path series with (the late, great) Dungeon magazine in adventures that only went up to 20th!!
So my point is that the Mythic Rules don’t sell themselves as doing anything we haven’t already seen in non-epic games.
Upper_Krust
November 23, 2012
Howdy Kinak,
I understand the purpose of marketing (and indeed designing) Mythic Levels so that they can be used at all levels of play.
But I think my point still stands, that the Mythic rules don’t let you do anything you couldn’t already do at sub-epic levels AND notably, in Paizo Adventure Paths!
Just because Pathfinder was previously ‘gun-shy’ about detailing its Demon Lords and Demigods doesn’t inspire me with much confidence.
But I’ll keep my eyes open on Mythic developments. Its early days yet, maybe they will yet surprise me.
When I have a better grasp of the Pathfinder hierarchy (re: Demon Lords and Immortals…and how they fit into the Mythic Rules) then I might have a few encounter ideas. 😉
Dave
May 3, 2013
UK, I assume you have heard about the new Pathfinder Bestiary 4: http://paizo.com/products/btpy8yop I’m still a 4e/5e guy myself, but I thought some of it seemed right up your alley, I know I’m going to take a look at it.
Upper_Krust
May 3, 2013
Hi Dave,
yes, I get updates from Wayne Reynolds on facebook and he showed off the cover a few days ago. Looks very interesting.
Was also nice of Edward to suggest the Nosferatu to Paizo in the original “What do you want to see in the Pathfinder Bestiary 4” Thread. 🙂
Looks like some interesting stuff in there. Hopefully lots for high level play. I’ll definitely pick up the book.
I had a look through the Pathfinder Bestiary 3 but what I didn’t like in that was all the great ideas treated at such low levels (Rakshasa is one that springs to mind). But I suppose when they are capped at 20th it makes sense for them.
Dave
May 7, 2013
Ya, I was supprised to hear there was a 4th Bestiary because I had such little interest in the 3rd that I had forgotten about it! Anyhway, I hope your doing well and I’m always checking in to see some more Epic goodness from ya!
Upper_Krust
May 8, 2013
Hi Dave,
yes the third Pathfinder bestiary was not a patch on the second one. I’ll definitely but the 4th one though – along with the Mythic rules.
I am doing great thanks for asking. Just had Lens Replacement Surgery (the past two weeks). Everything seems fine so far.
I apologise again for the lack of updates to this website (and indeed) the lack of content (epic or otherwise) from me. I sort of went off the boil at the turn of this year. The sales of the Vampire Bestiary were fairly poor compared to the original Epic Bestiary and Ascension sales and that sort of sapped my enthusiasm for a few months. But I got back into the swing of things from April (although a holiday and eye surgery had temporarily derailed progress).
1. I’m hoping to get a revised Vampire Bestiary: Mountain of the Cannibal God into print within a week or so (May definitely).
2. With the Vampire Bestiary: Temple of Death to follow a few weeks later (June)
3. A new print version of the original 3.5E Epic Bestiary (with a few added pages/art) sometime in June/July
4. A Print version of 3.5E Ascension with maybe some new art (July/August)
5. A Pathfinder conversion of Vampire Bestiary: Mountain of the Cannibal God (August/September)
6. Vampire Bestiary: Castle Dracula as soon after that as possible.
7. After that I will be trying some smaller 4E epic bestiaries with epic/immortal rules thrown in.
Dave
May 12, 2013
I was worried about the VB with the timing of the end of 4e and all. So much of the D&D attention has shifted to 5e or pathfinder at this point. Just look a the traffic on 4e D&D boards compared to the 5e boards.
Translating it to Pathfinder is probably a good idea. I personally don’t care for that system, but it should be good for your sales. Good content is good content – you just hit a fanbase in transition. Getting into pathfinder should give you access to a more stable fanbase at this time. Also, if you can tie it (or future works) into the Mythic content as well – you might get some synergy as there.
Anyway, I am still planning on picking up a copy of the 4e VB, but I was kinda waiting for the book with epic rules (colossal+ size, super-solo, etc.) to pick up the whole lot. Is that still in the works, or is it just going to be blog content?
Upper_Krust
May 12, 2013
Hi Dave,
Nothing I can do about the timing of the Vampire Bestiary now. I’ll just have to learn from my mistakes for the future.
I agree a lot of attention has shifted onto 5E and Pathfinder, which is sad because 4E I think is a great system. I think 5E will only serve to dilute the brand even further. I’ll wait and see what 5E is like before deciding whether to create any material for it.
I’ll see what the Mythic rules are like in a few months time. I’m not hopeful (based on the previews), but I guess on the plus side, limiting the Mythic rules to 10 levels should make translations and conversions of 4E’s epic tier very easy indeed.
Thanks for the continued support (everyone who is still out there). I know I have made loads of mistakes and taken my proverbial ‘foot off the gas’. But hopefully I can cook up quite a few interesting books in the near future.
As regards future epic plans (4E and Pathfinder conversions). My current idea is to create really small epic books (say 32-48 pages) and include one facet of the epic rules (Super Solos, Mega Size, Unit/Army rules, Portfolio Paths, Immortal Tier) in each one. Then combine everything later into one book.
The first epic book will probably be about the Hells and Dispater. In fact I may chop this into TWO 32 page books. One will have the UNIT rules (and lots of stuff on Dispater’s army; generals and the various monsters encountered on his layer of Hell) and the next will have the MEGA size rules (with Dispater and his lieutenants as well as numerous Golems, Devils and Monsters).
Devidramoth
May 11, 2013
Please oh please an immortals handbook bestiary volume II I’ve been waiting so long.
Upper_Krust
May 11, 2013
Hey Devid,
well no immediate plans for more 3.5E work (directly). HOWEVER, I am getting some great help in converting all my 4E books to Pathfinder (starting with the Vampire Bestiary – Mountain of the Cannibal God). So when I get any more Epic Bestiary books completed, I’ll be sure and convert them over as soon as possible. 🙂
Dave
May 13, 2013
Yep, I to think 4e is a really good system too and I think with a few tweaks it could be a fantastic system. I think 5e has potential, but at this point it seems like taking some of the best ideas from 5e and applying them to my 4e homebrew might be the best option. I think 4e’s biggest mistake is that it tried to change too much too fast for so many (that ant the licensing issues). I was never overly invested in the D&D lore, but that change alone turned off a lot off people. Mix that with the rules changes and it was just to much for many.
I think if 4e had started with essentials and not changed the lore so much (though I vastly prefer the 4e lore) it would have gained a lot more traction. They could then build in options that gave the same power structure to the other classes (or something like your alternate class system) as later options.
Oh well, such is life. I look forward to your future products. I think the small book format is a really great idea. I look forward to future installments.
Upper_Krust
May 13, 2013
I appreciate the support Dave,
I guess some people were just not ready for something so different. But in all honesty I see no reason for a new edition that was only slightly different – what would have been the point of that (other than spinning money for the company). There are only so many times you can buy books like Manual of the Planes and the Draconomicon before these things feel stale.
I am not sure what to think of 5E yet, I REALLY like a handful of the ideas, but I am not sure if the whole edition is worthwhile based on a few good ideas.
Dave
May 14, 2013
Yep, basically my thoughts at this point. I will have to see when they get it all wrapped up.
I also want to point out that I think you hit the nail on the head in one of your post when you mentioned that the 4e monster levels are to high which made Epic feel less epic. Since I read that I have adjusted the level of all the 4e monsters we use by reducing them by 2/3. It has worked out great – thank you for the idea.
Upper_Krust
May 14, 2013
Glad to be of help Dave,
Its ridiculous monster inflation when you consider how the Balor went from 8 Hit Dice to 13 HD to 20 HD to Level 27 Elite.
Levels 21+ should be the truly epic monsters: Abominations, Apocalypse Spells, Demon Lords, Archdevils, Demigods (or better immortals), Starspawn, Primordials and the even more insanely powerful creatures.
Instead we got Efreeti, Swordwings and a bunch of other stuff that should just about qualify for the paragon tier, shoehorned into the Epic tier to fill it out.
Dave
May 15, 2013
Agreed. It is increasingly discouraging since we never got complete epic tier support. If they had stayed at 20 levels (all noteable monsters included), focused on that, and then provided a complete epic tier they would have been much better served. What would be great about a 1-20 level mix is that is allows heroic tier foes to still be threats in paragon tier by monster role scaling (solo – elite – standard – minion). Thus, as Next is trying to do, your typical monsters could be relevant throughout a campaign. I don’t think enough DMs understood this concept. I think they should have made it more clear in the MM. And it would leave space for the truley epic monsters to be 20+. If I ever have the time I will write my own version of 4.5e. Most of the work is already done – it just needs some house cleaning (all the monsters will take time – but it is pretty easy work).
Dave
May 15, 2013
Yep, in a recent adventure I took a balor down to a level 18 elite (where I think it should be) and then made it a level 13 solo to go against my level 10 PCs. That wouldn’t work it the Balor was a level 27 elite.
Upper_Krust
May 15, 2013
Hey Dave,
Yes the lack of Epic Tier support was a bit of a downer (no Dungeon Master’s Guide 3 for instance – purported to be heavily skewed towards the epic tier) and in fairness I TOTALLY blame myself for this.
As soon as 4E began I should have been straight in with an Epic Tier Handbook or somesuch. Still, no point having regrets at this stage. Better just to crack on.
In terms of 5E, yes the total math flattening will help monsters stay relevant longer, presumably eradicating the need for Rank Scaling. One of 5E’s better ideas.
Robert Anderson (Kaster)
August 19, 2013
I love your mythic Tier to divine ranks, as for someone who actually plays with one of the Paizo writters I can say they really want to avoid epic at all costs. Personally I have been playing longer than many have been alive and in that campaign setting we have been using 1 to 100 without much difficulty from 1st edition to Present Pathfinder. I beleive your are right with the idea that you can do everything Mythic within the mundane 20 levels. I believe this Mythic book is their answer to all the Epic ideas and desires of the masses, I know that they are starting to feel the preasure of busting out a pathfinder 2 or pathfinder epic due to each book they produce now counterdicts the core book in some way.
On the other hand due to market share and all the core rules against players “losing” maybe not. In pathfinder their is no perma-death (miracle, wish, or true ress can always work) and you cannot role a fumble in the original core book so you really cannot fail by the original rules. Thus proving their love for the 1-20 mundane levels were everything is always happy. Where as in Mythic “If someone greater cou’de grace or gains a critical which kills” you your gone. and Your gone I believe is “you lose” by pathfinder standards.
Upper_Krust
August 22, 2013
Hi Robert,
apologies for the slow reply, I was working the past two nights and hadn’t checked my emails.
I can understand why (from a design standpoint) Paizo would want to steer clear of anything to do with epic. 3rd Edition (and by extension I imagine Pathfinder) starts to become far too easy to break (or at least bend) even before reaching epic levels.
Plus as one of the few who developed epic material for 3rd Edition I can attest that it is such a chore in book-keeping that it would drive anyone insane.
Best wishes to the Pathfinder designers. I simply grew frustrated and annoyed with 3rd Edition and when 4th Edition, came along (from a design perspective) it was such a breath of fresh air. Pathfinder didn’t (and arguably couldn’t) fix for me what were the glaring flaws of 3rd Edition.
I suspect Paizo have just about hit the saturation point in terms of books and are now starting to find themselves in a similar position to WotC as regards “What the heck can we do next?”
Weird to see how Pathfinder flips the impact of death on its head. I would have thought the lower levels were when you were unlikely to recover from death with raising and resurrection the preserve of the fortunate few. Likewise the higher levels when characters become akin to immortals (and players have invested many more hours/months/years of time on a single character) would have been when they were much harder to permanently kill.
I look forward to picking up the Mythic rules in a week or so. I’m probably in a unique position (of someone who worked on something similar) of seeing how they fixed (or papered over?) the flaws to get everything to work.
Does anyone here have the Mythic Rulebook yet? If so what is their opinions of it. I had a look over the forums but didn’t see any specific posts on it as yet.
Robert Anderson (Kaster)
August 23, 2013
I have the pdf book at the moment for Mythic rules, it depends on how you read them of course. If you omit the last paragraph or last sentence of each power mythics or mystics are epic without actually being epic. Ever since Scion (Whitewolf) produced their game with three books (Hero, Demigod, and god) I have often thought that that is the way rpgs shoud go , to a system that tiers from normal, to mid level, than epic or godlike. Though as of lately even I am tempted to toss Mythic Pathfinder for “Revised Pathfinder” which is opening with Demons very soon.
I beleive all this was done just to start changing the pathetic challange the 1st beastiary provided with upgraded monsters etc. We will see where everything leads, my prediction still stands that the first system that can go from 1 to “epic” and not play like a 4th edition video game, will be in the end victorious.
Thanks for the reply, I am sure that “death or losing” will be still impossible no matter what one rule reads in a book.
Upper_Krust
August 25, 2013
Hello again Robert,
As regards the Mythic Rulebook – are the monsters mainly Mythic versions of low-level monsters or are there enough CR 20+ monsters in there…or are they holding most of those back for Bestiary 4 I wonder?
Hero, Demigod and God were great books. I think in 4E parlance that probably equates to Paragon, Epic and (hypothetical) Immortal Tiers. But the books were very well written, albeit mechanically the system never grabbed me.
Not sure I understand the sentence “Though as of lately even I am tempted to toss Mythic Pathfinder for “Revised Pathfinder” which is opening with Demons very soon.”.
I don’t think there will necessarily be any winners in the next round of RPGs. I just think the market will fracture a little bit more than before.
Always happy to reply.
Robert Anderson (Kaster)
August 26, 2013
Hello again Upper-Crust,
My crazy sentence referes to the different Pathfinder Stlyes at the moment. “Mythic” and ‘Core” are already their own pathfinder systems. I beleive with Demons Revised and a few more books coming out as “Revised” that many “players” will reject revised just l as mony as they did 3.5 when it first came out.
I Agree on the fracturing, however deep within my bones I feel that personal systems which reign supreme at conventions will be the overall standard until corporate gaming can get their heads on straight. I see a mass flocking to 3rd party Pathfinder type games that are higher than level 12 and other system rpgs that take the game out of its “box” if you will.
I am always happy to reply as well. In fact every year at Dundracon in San Ramon [President’s day weekend] I have these discussions openly with several Paizo and Wizard of the Coast designers.
Upper_Krust
August 27, 2013
Hey Robert,
okay I understand now. Wasn’t aware they were already at the ‘Revising’ stuff point.
Maybe I should re-release the Immortals Handbook: Ascension for Pathfinder and show them what true EPIC is all about. 😀
Sounds like you have the ear of the designers on the front lines.
Robert Anderson (Kaster)
August 27, 2013
The advanced class guide is coming out. Adding the advanced class guide (choose your own class build) plus the mythic adventures (you do not level just gain more abilities). If you add these concepts and major rule changes together you get White-wolf gaming system. This means you no longer level past 20, instead you just gain more feats and abilities. The monsters can go beyond 20th level, however they are nerfed so I doubt it really matters.
Upper_Krust
August 27, 2013
This is sort of what 1st Edition was all about (tiny gains after a certain threshold), However, if its not built into the core of Pathfinder then its likely not supported by additional materials. As you yourself note, the monsters also need nerfed in this situation so what is the point in the first place.
Robert Anderson (Kaster)
September 17, 2013
After alot of game testing, I do like that fact that with Revised and Mythic, the rules are clearly vague enough to crush all rules lawyers. I still feel the monsters are incredibly weak in comparison to characters of 1/2 their level…though that has been a pathfinder problem since its conception.
Upper_Krust
September 18, 2013
I just got the Mythic Rulebook yesterday and with work last night and tonight I haven’t had a lot of time with it yet. But early impressions suggest some good chapters and some bad chapters – the monster Chapter being particularly bad. I’ll read over it when I get the chance and post a review in a week or so.
Anonymous
February 5, 2014
Pathfinder doesn’t currently have a book for the SRD divine rules (SRD psionics was converted by Dreamscarred Press under Psionics Unleashed and now Ultimate Psionics). I’d be really happy to see your Immortal Handbooks series (which already include the SRD divine rules, I think?) consolidated and updated to be the de facto rules for divinity in Pathfinder. You’ve already got most of the material done, and most of what you’d have to do would be to replace references to Wizards IP with equivalents in the Pathfinder SRD (eg. brood become proteans, brood lords become chaos lords). The pathfinder SRD and tons of other 3rd party OGC is available to reference on d20pfsrd.com, so it should be easier than ever to find what you need.
Upper_Krust
February 7, 2014
Howdy Anonymous, 🙂
I have contemplated this, I may do it in the near future, as well as the conversion of the Vampire Bestiary to Pathfinder (which is technically almost done as is Vampire Bestiary 2 for 4th Edition). The only reason both these pdfs are not onsale months ago is because I am a procrastinating fool (both require less than a solid week’s work to complete).
That said, I am (and have been) taking a few months off my RPG stuff (as the lack of updates here will confirm) to try my hand at something else. Details I’ll reveal if anything comes of it.
However, I will definitely be returning to RPG stuff shortly (probably in about 3 months time from now…end of May, start of June most likely).
Been a bit burnt out on it all and 4E sales (of the Vampire Bestiary at least*) just are not profitable enough to warrant the investiture of time required. Albeit nearly all the art was commissioned and finished, and virtually all the text completed too. So I’ll get that all done once I exit my current malaise.
*retrospectively I should have just done epic stuff from the start. Maybe that might have sold better, who knows.
Thanks for the interest.
Dave
March 20, 2014
UK,
I think you are probably right that sticking with Epic or Immortal stuff from the start would have been a better idea, but I understand the desire to fix what came before. The thing that drove me a little crazy is the solutions to 4e’s problems (at least in Epic) are so clear that they just beg to be fixed! I wish WotC had just left Epic alone and then you could have done it right!
Anyway, ever thought of making a system neutral immortal rulebook. Something like a UK version of Primal Order?
Upper_Krust
March 20, 2014
Hi Dave, yes totally agree I should have fixed the Epic Tier from the start. My own stupidity/procrastination. 😦 I’ll get back to working on RPG stuff at the end of May, I have another project I am working on right now.
I have contemplated a system neutral Immortals book. I’ll wait to see what happens with 5th edition before I make any decisions on what to do next though.
Anonymous
February 5, 2014
If you want some resources for deities, I’d recommend the following (most should have good OGC):
Bastion Press’ Lore of the Gods (contains write ups for the Egyptian, Greek, Norse and Mesopotamian Pantheons)
Purple Duck Games’ Gods of Porphyria (original gods)
Dog Soul Publishing’s Folkloric line (includes Hindu and Jain pantheons and some others)
Bard and Sage’s Mythos line (original gods, organized by theme)
Sean K. Reynolds’ The New Argonauts (the free web enhancement also has an evolution of the Greek pantheon)
Green Ronin’s Mythic Vistas line (various historical eras)
Sean K. Reynolds’ Deities of the Faithful (original gods, pdf can be found on the internet archive)
The Village of Briarton (two or three sentence description each of a goddess of the hearth and a god of pestilence and trickery, plus two new domains and five new spells, but you aren’t missing much by not reading it)
Celtic Druids and the Tuatha de Dannan by Dominique Crouzet (celtic pantheon, only partly OGC)
Diadamon Pantheon 9th edition by Robert J. Hall (original deities)
Sword & Sorcery’s Relics & Rituals: Olympus and Excalibur (Greek and Arthurian myth, respectively)
Upper_Krust
February 7, 2014
I think I already have a few of those. That said, I generally dislike any immortal related book that doesn’t try its hand at stats for the actual gods themselves.
Thanks very kindly for the list though. A few of those sound interesting enough that I’ll probably look to check them out in due course. 😉
Adam Boustead
November 10, 2014
Sounds interesting Craig mate have lost your email your email adres so I can send very ion of dragon portfolio my email is Adam.boustead@icloud.com
Upper_Krust
November 12, 2014
Hi Adam, Hope you are keeping well?
My email address is agooddesigner@hotmail.com
Anonymous
July 8, 2015
Someone wrote epic level rules for Patjfinder. They’re not made with mythic tiers in mind, though. http://www.jessejackjones.com/pathfinder
I would like to see a book of epic levels and divine ranks for Pathfinder someday. Mythic just doesn’t feel any more “mythic” than regular play.
Upper_Krust
July 9, 2015
Hi there, thanks for the link. Very nice pdf from Jesse Jack Jones, some cool feats (and more) thrown in there.
I agree with you about Mythic, but (as I suspect the Pathfinder designers realised) 3rd Edition/Pathfinder becomes increasingly complicated (needlessly so) at high and epic levels. So I can see why they went along the mythic route rather than create something legitimately epic.
Anonymous
July 10, 2015
By all means, mythic should be part of the core rules like they were in BECMI. After fifth level or so characters have surpassed maximum human potential anyway, so mythic just makes sense at that point.
Upper_Krust
July 11, 2015
The idea of the Mythic Rules is not a million miles from my own Divinity Templates. I just think by focusing on integrating the Mythic with the Mundane (Level 1-20 progression) they really pushed what makes Mythic different to the background – the Mythic Monster chapter is painfully bad (insultingly so) and none of the other elements improve on the Epic Level Handbook – which was itself an average book (with some great chapters and some poor ones balancing things out).
William
February 13, 2022
Late on the scene, but noticed the mythic stuff. 🙂
I just use mythic as a “template” similar to the paragon from the ELH. I imagine mythic character options and creatures might seem flimsy or poorly streamlined in some cases, but I found them to be suitable for Hercules and Xena style characters and worlds. I think the designers may have been influenced by something similar.
I tend to overlap mythic rules with Ascension rules. It makes characters and creatures a bit stronger, but not game breakingly so. I even have a divine ability called Mythic that lets you gain a Mythic path (mythic tiers), even if you’re already a mythic creature (mythic rank). (The normal mythic rules don’t let you have both Mythic Ranks and Mythic Tiers normally.)
I just gestalt the mythic ranks and mythic tiers so you don’t get double the benefits. You still only get up to +10 to distribute to your ability scores, you still only get up to 5 mythic feats (unless a mythic template (like Mythic Lich) specifically gives you one), etc..
I tend to think that the real problem is that they used the word “mythic”, which for people who like epic or deific game play is something of a misnomer. “Mythic” isn’t really MYTHIC to us who are accustomed to epic and deific game play. It’s a step up from normal, but “Legendary” or “Paragon” or some similar term may have been better suited for Mythic Adventures.
Anyway, I’ve rambled on enough. Got to get back to my monster movies. Have fun everyone. 🙂
Upper_Krust
February 13, 2022
Howdy William,
…and of course now Mythic means something else entirely in 5th Edition.
The Pathfinder Mythic rules never really wowed me and I think epic (or Mythic or whatever you want to call it) should always have that x-factor.
Hopefully my next book will. 😉